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  • Hi. I've been making my rounds today, and I noticed that more than half of the international-related pages appears to have little to no content whatsoever (i.e. no blurbs, just tables, even poorly constructed). As the Survivor Wiki's main page is currently on the stage of being refurbished, presenting these pages for me to a new visitor is embarrassing since we have very few information about them (truthfully, whatever content we have is no better than what is on Wikipedia). I would like to ask the community what to do with the international pages. Keep? Keep the versions that are well-documented? Delete altogether and have a separate wiki for them? 

    I'm disappointed that opening the wiki again to international versions is becoming a failure, so if nothing fruitful comes out of this post (i.e. having a stand without sufficient arguments), I will have to make an executive decision to revert this wiki back to being exclusive to the American version. Those who proposed to contribute to certain versions better speak up or have your edits go to waste.

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    • I will give this one a week, and if no one responds or if the conversation is not as lively as I expect it to be, the international pages will have to go.  

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    • I think the AU Survivor pages should be kept up since it does seem to have a decent international fanbase, plus they were upheld really well and edited frequently.

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    • If any international pages should be kept, they should be the Australian, French, and New Zealander pages, given that for the most part, all of their pages are completed, at least at the US standard, and are edited frequently enough. Granted, the latter two are missing episode pages, but the Australian episodes were added well after their pages were made as well. However, if these three versions are kept, their use of twists and recurring challenges should also be documented on said pages, given that some of their pages link to these twists/challenges but only include information from US Survivor.

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    • I think that all of the international pages should be kept. Yes, it's incredibly disheartening to see so little development on these pages, but they are part of the 'Survivor' franchise regardless, and should be kept up for that reason.

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    • I think it's best to keep AU, NZ, and French, because those have the largest fan bases.

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    • I would keep the season pages but delete the contestant pages. We have to realistic, people aren't editing them.

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    • Just delete them all.

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    • I would keep all of the Australian pages and contestants pages because of it's strong fanbase, but the other international pages and their contestants IMO can go.

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    • Hello, I work in the Mexican version, I feel that I have tried too hard, so that one day erase all my work, I know that the information is not complete, but I would like to continue working on it, just that I was busy. If you have advice, you are welcome.

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    • As an Australian, I would like to see the Australian Survivor pages kept as well as the New Zealand ones because they are generally looked after pretty well. Australian Survivor seems to be a series that will last longer than it was anticipated, meaning their is a demand for its pages to be kept. As we approach the second instalment, I think we just need to make sure the quality and quantity of these pages is kept. However, I see a lot of other versions with contestant pages that are very bare and think they should be removed. And plus, this wiki is for Survivor, not for CBS Survivor which some seem to not realise. My opinion is we keep pages that are maintained consistently and properly and remove most of the outdated and poorly managed ones. 

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    • AriSebDT wrote:
      Hello, I work in the Mexican version, I feel that I have tried too hard, so that one day erase all my work, I know that the information is not complete, but I would like to continue working on it, just that I was busy. If you have advice, you are welcome.

      While I appreciate your efforts, it is very apparent that you're just making pages for the sake of making them and not planning on putting actual content. Articulate to me why should I not delete them.

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    • Based from what has been said so far, only the Australian and Kiwi versions have substantial fan interest. However, former admin Rob and an asshole by the name of Antbert03 are working on a separate wiki solely dedicated for Australian Survivor. I propose either:  

      1. Keep the Wikia a US-version only site, delete the international pages altogether, move the Australian Survivor content to the AS Wiki (p.s. there's not really much to move since the AS Wiki is edited regularly), and if everyone's being so insistent, we make separate wikis for each version (I could help out in wikicode but by no means I will have a hand in these wikis' day-to-day affairs); OR
      2. Keep the Australian and Kiwi versions only.

      NOTE: The other versions will have to go either way.

      The reason I brought this up is because I've contacted Wikia to help us out in making a main page portal similar to Mass Effect Wiki and Avatar Wiki; and it is very embarrassing to show the international pages to new users because they are poorly formatted, the little content they have is no better than what Wikipedia has, and they do create a conflict of interest to us admins because we are supposed to give the American pages the preferential treatment being the flagship franchise.

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    • Another note: More conditions would be set regardless of whatever decision you make (i.e. how episode blurbs are going to be added in the international pages). One thing is for sure: The American pages will always get the preferential treatment.

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    • I think we keep the Australian and Kiwi versions on this wiki because they are the best kept. :)

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    • LOL

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    • LincolnAloisio wrote:
      LOL

      ?

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    • IAmNothing712 wrote:
      AriSebDT wrote:
      Hello, I work in the Mexican version, I feel that I have tried too hard, so that one day erase all my work, I know that the information is not complete, but I would like to continue working on it, just that I was busy. If you have advice, you are welcome.
      While I appreciate your efforts, it is very apparent that you're just making pages for the sake of making them and not planning on putting actual content. Articulate to me why should I not delete them.

      Sorry, but why do you think I'm not putting real content?

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    • AriSebDT wrote:
      IAmNothing712 wrote:
      AriSebDT wrote:
      Hello, I work in the Mexican version, I feel that I have tried too hard, so that one day erase all my work, I know that the information is not complete, but I would like to continue working on it, just that I was busy. If you have advice, you are welcome.
      While I appreciate your efforts, it is very apparent that you're just making pages for the sake of making them and not planning on putting actual content. Articulate to me why should I not delete them.
      Sorry, but why do you think I'm not putting real content?

      All you did was put up pages, not actual textual content in them.

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    • I think we should keep the Australian and Kiwi Survivor pages because they are kept up to the standard of the US Survivor pages for the most part.

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    • IAmNothing712 escribió:
      AriSebDT escribió:
      IAmNothing712 escribió:
      AriSebDT escribió:
      Hola, yo trabajo en la versión mexicana, siento que he tratado con demasiada fuerza, por lo que un día borrar todo mi trabajo, sé que la información no es completa, pero me gustaría seguir trabajando en ello, simplemente que estaba ocupado. Si tiene consejos, que son bienvenidos.
      Aunque aprecio sus esfuerzos, es muy evidente que sólo estás haciendo páginas en aras de hacerlas y no pensando en poner el contenido real. Articular a mí ¿por qué no eliminarlos.
      Lo sentimos, pero ¿por qué cree que no estoy poniendo contenido real?
      Todo lo que hizo fue poner las páginas, no el contenido textual real en ellos.

      Yes, I do. But good is his decision, I see no difference in maintaining the Australian version than the Mexican.

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    • IAmNothing712
      IAmNothing712 removed this reply because:
      This is MY thread.
      16:03, June 21, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • LincolnAloisio wrote:
      OK then, I hope this is the last time this is discussed.

      Way back when it was first proposed to have other Survivor versions from outside the US (I won't say whose idea it was :)), everyone knew some would not have enough information but it was decided to have them anyway and now it feels like every six moths this is discussed.

      1. There is nothing wrong with looking like Wikipedia. That is a very good site and one of the better known in the world :)

      2. Let's not be xenophobes and exclude some versions just because they aren't popular. It's all or nothing. If it's decided that they are going to be deleted, all of them should be deleted, without exceptions.

      3. LOL at the thought of being ashamed because of a site. But if that is really a problem I suggest just having the season page, without contestants', tribes' and episodes' pages. At least until someone can add ~real content~. One way for the season page to have more information and not be just a page with a lot of tables, is to have the episode guide like it was being formated a few seasons ago with descriptions of challenges/tribal councils (is that still a thing? things here change so fast that I can't keep up).


      As a side note, you should really stop with the dictatorial attitude, Ian. This is just a site for a TV show that nobody wins anything for editing it. If people come here to edit the pages, it's because they like doing it and t help the wiki to grow. Nobody wants to read "speak now or lose all your work forever".


      1. Wikia is not Wikipedia.
      2. It's not so much excluding the other versions. Let's be realistic here. 70% of our pages, US or international, barely have any info in them. Also, the admin panel is spread too thin and couldn't handle all of them. So for the sake of manageability, this has to happen.
      3. Survivor Wiki has increased traffic over the years. Ground control to you, Lincoln.

      As for your side note (which pisses me off by the way):

      • If I'm a dictator, I would've just said "fuck you all" and went about deleting them without your consent. If I'm a dictator, I would've taken credit for the creation of this wiki because I edit here more than all of you combined. But no, I choose not to engage on this further because this is not the topic at hand.
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    • keep the South African pages. Me living in SA knows more what is happening with it. They are currently searching for a new host and will be back on air when they find one

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    • Maybe we could make a case for just AU and NZ? But not every single international version. But then it would basically be just english speaking Survivor's are here. 

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    • IAmNothing712
      IAmNothing712 removed this reply because:
      Keeping the discussion on topic
      15:31, June 19, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Now that I think about it, in addition to keeping the Australian and Kiwi versions, I'm starting to think because the show's origins began in Sweden, we keep the "Expedition Robinson" pages as well.

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    • I think South African Survivor is still on youtube so someone can try adding to those :) I will do what I can when I return from vacation. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaRYMIoJSg_nuEc9aAQVuSQ/videos

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    • As many stated, I think Koh Lanta, Australia and NZ should stay. Maybe South Africa, but I am not sure what the deal with that is about with finding the new host. 

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    • I have been a staunch supporter of international pages, and I REALLY don't get ANY reason to remove them, especially that it is NOT hindering any of the main content here. You just don't throw old books from the library because they are not read, because it will always be a reference for someone eventually. If there is an issue about Fandom having server issues and need to delete content for more space, then sure, we should consider it. There is no harm in keeping the international pages, because they ARE part of the Survivor franchise and history, and removing them is a disregard for their place in the world of Survivor and the potential interest they gave to people worldwide, and eventually how they attracted people to the famous U.S. version.

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    • Honestly, atleast keep the Australian, Kiwi and Koh Lanta. 

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    • I promise to work on the pages of contestants and tribes (possibly from the episodes as well) of the Mexican version, but this I will do after they make the decision, since I do not want to waste my time, if later they are going to erase it.

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    • I also want to add that it is too difficult to add new information or content, since in my case, they are old seasons of 60 episodes, I can not see them again to only put detailed information. I hope you understand me.  

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    • IAmNothing712
      IAmNothing712 removed this reply because:
      Cross me the way you did one more time, next thing you'll see is "A sassy asshole has been removed."
      15:52, June 21, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Zjzr wrote:
      I have been a staunch supporter of international pages, and I REALLY don't get ANY reason to remove them, especially that it is NOT hindering any of the main content here. You just don't throw old books from the library because they are not read, because it will always be a reference for someone eventually. If there is an issue about Fandom having server issues and need to delete content for more space, then sure, we should consider it. There is no harm in keeping the international pages, because they ARE part of the Survivor franchise and history, and removing them is a disregard for their place in the world of Survivor and the potential interest they gave to people worldwide, and eventually how they attracted people to the famous U.S. version.

      Have you seen a library full of empty books, all bound but no actual content? If this is your argument, rather go to wikipedia.

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    • AriSebDT wrote:
      I also want to add that it is too difficult to add new information or content, since in my case, they are old seasons of 60 episodes, I can not see them again to only put detailed information. I hope you understand me.

      I could give the Mexican version another shot,  but if the pages remain poorly formatted and have nothing more than tables, I'm sorry. No deadline will be given, but I can tell in your edit history if you're really putting an effort in this side of the Survivor Wiki project.

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    • In my opinion, I think Australian Survivor, Koh Lanta and NZ should stay. 

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    • IDK if this is still a topic that's being discussed, but I'm willing to create (slowly) all of the pages regarding La Isla, starting from the current season, and working though the earlier seasons.

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    • Survivor South Africa just opened apps for the newest season yesterday, so it is still going on.

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    • Zjzr wrote:
      I have been a staunch supporter of international pages, and I REALLY don't get ANY reason to remove them, especially that it is NOT hindering any of the main content here. You just don't throw old books from the library because they are not read, because it will always be a reference for someone eventually. If there is an issue about Fandom having server issues and need to delete content for more space, then sure, we should consider it. There is no harm in keeping the international pages, because they ARE part of the Survivor franchise and history, and removing them is a disregard for their place in the world of Survivor and the potential interest they gave to people worldwide, and eventually how they attracted people to the famous U.S. version.

      I have to agree with this. When the first season of survivor aired in Israel, my country, I didn't knew about the US version. Then I started watching it and now it's one of my favorite shows. I see no harm in keeping all of the international versions, even if some of them are poorly written. I'm sure they will improve with time as I see how some of them are doing so now. How much fan base each and every one of them have is not something that should determine anything regarding that matter. And there is nothing wrong with wikipedia's format until they improve. I would've put some edits to the Israeli version myself if I had any knowledge on how to do it properly and more time on my hands as I'm studying for my medical degree right now. I know the admins intentions are good, but imo the effort people putted already on the pages should be at least somewhat appreciated and left alone, for the sake of love for the show in all of it's versions.

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    • I don't understand why International Survivor cannot be a separate Wikia project. I find it too much that this Wikia has info on non-American versions as well. So I say there must be a separation.

      And for the record - I am not American.

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    • Ifoundalemontree wrote:
      I don't understand why International Survivor cannot be a separate Wikia project. I find it too much that this Wikia has info on non-American versions as well. So I say there must be a separation.

      And for the record - I am not American.

      But this wikia is called "survivor wiki", not "survivor (us) wiki", and I don't see the problem incuding all the versions under one title. Sure right now a lot of pages are missing information, but they are slowly getting filled and with time I'm sure it'll improve. Also it's just seems weird to have a wiki for the us version and another for the internationals. What's the point? The international wikis that are already out there are no way near as organized and popular as this one. The way this wiki is now makes it look more cohesive and inclusive if anything. 

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    • If there are Wikis for international versions, the content should be transferred there.

      I think it would be better if this Wiki went back to being a US Survivor wiki only. Another thing is that you cannot have a wiki dedicated to versions of the show the admins do not watch, and cannot edit if needed.

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    • I've long championed the idea of an international seasons wiki. As AUS Survivor continues to grow, it needs its own space.

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    • Ifoundalemontree wrote:
      If there are Wikis for international versions, the content should be transferred there.

      I think it would be better if this Wiki went back to being a US Survivor wiki only. Another thing is that you cannot have a wiki dedicated to versions of the show the admins do not watch, and cannot edit if needed.

      There are a few international wikis, but in their own languages, so most people won't understand them. 

      And that's why the international versions are edited by people who watch and understand how to transfer them to English. :)

      Besides, it's clear this wiki is dedicated mainly to the us version. The front page shows only the contestants from it, and all of the discussions are about it. The other versions don't harm the quality of the wiki or the us content. On the contrary, they only add to its cohesiveness as the main survivor wiki out there. There is enough space here for all of them to be represented equally and thoroughly. The idea of an international wiki and a wiki just for the us sounds a little bit silly. But oh well, I'm not an admin so I don't really get to decide. But I rest my case. I didn't see them being deleted so far, only improving, so I guess it was decided to keep the wiki as it is though nothing officially was announced.

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    • Rony419 wrote:
      There are a few international wikis, but in their own languages, so most people won't understand them.

      And that's why the international versions are edited by people who watch and understand how to transfer them to English. :)

      1. The question is: do people actually need to understand them? Why would anyone care for a version of "Survivor" they can't watch because it is in a language they don't understand?

      2. This is yet another problem: the people who write the articles about the international versions usually do this in poor English, so the articles need to be edited later by someone with a better lever of English/a native speaker, which just leads to more work, and since almost no one does this, the Wiki looks really bad. I mean, even the US Survivor articles have to be rewritten, so what does it mean about the articles about international versions, especially non-English language ones?

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    • Ifoundalemontree wrote:

      1. The question is: do people actually need to understand them? Why would anyone care for a version of "Survivor" they can't watch because it is in a language they don't understand?

      2. This is yet another problem: the people who write the articles about the international versions usually do this in poor English, so the articles need to be edited later by someone with a better lever of English/a native speaker, which just leads to more work, and since almost no one does this, the Wiki looks really bad. I mean, even the US Survivor articles have to be rewritten, so what does it mean about the articles about international versions, especially non-English language ones?

      1. If you don't care doesn't mean others don't care. I for once am interested to see how the other versions look, their own twists and the differences from the five versions I watched (US, Israel, Australia, NZ and South africa). It's cool to see how other countries interpretate survivor, even if I can't watch them. But having them here allows me and others to at least read about them in organized and pictured manner.

      2. Not everyone have top-notch English in their pocket, especially in grammar. Imo that's the admins job to correct any grammatical mistakes and educate the ones who edit those pages on how to do it properly. Talk to those people and cooperate with them. Not berate them how poor of a job they are doing. I mean, if not that, then why are they for? It's part of their job to rewrite articles on here, and if it's too much, then it should be considered to add more admins than 10. (If I'm not mistaken that is the rule for the maximum admins)

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    • 2. Not everyone have top-notch English in their pocket, especially in grammar. Imo that's the admins job to correct any grammatical mistakes and educate the ones who edit those pages on how to do it properly. Talk to those people and cooperate with them. Not berate them how poor of a job they are doing. I mean, if not that, then why are they for? It's part of their job to rewrite articles on here, and if it's too much, then it should be considered to add more admins than 10. (If I'm not mistaken that is the rule for the maximum admins)

      1. If you need help with English, feel free to ask for help from admins or other active members of the community. Don't be shy. Ditto for any coding/formatting issues. (FYI copy/paste is your best friend if you're stuck.)

      2. There's not a max on the number of admins (last I checked there were at least 15 around here) but obviously there can't be hundreds running around either. Plus not all admins are necessarily editors, some work with graphics and coding the site's layout.

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    • Keep the following versions; American, Australian, and New Zealand.  

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    • Just keep everyone.

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    • Well, my opinion stays unchanged: each version of Survivor should have its own wiki with its own admins and all that. With all the versions on one wiki, the site feels very unorganized. It is a mess.

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    • I've made my decision: We let the pages stay. We currently have users who are putting considerable effort on the more obscure versions. If these users stopped editing and left their versions unfinished (i.e. lacked significant content other than wikicode), we make the call when we get there.

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    • Good decision.

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    • IAmNothing712 wrote:
      I've made my decision: We let the pages stay. We currently have users who are putting considerable effort on the more obscure versions. If these users stopped editing and left their versions unfinished (i.e. lacked significant content other than wikicode), we make the call when we get there.

      Thank you for the patience. This wiki definitely deserves to be the home for the survivor franchise worldwide.

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    • An Outcast
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