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Episode 4 Discussion Thread

  • RIP Alecia. That was a rather anticlimactic episode. Like, Alecia has been underdogging since Day 1, and it all led to nothing. Hellboy and Goliath were very derisive towards her, not giving her credit where its due (i.e. making fire). After this tribal, none of the remaining brawns are remotely rootable. This is the time where Pagonging would be sweet.

    That evacuation OMG, but kudos to the medical team for tending to everyone. Once your body saps its own water reserves, that's dehydration at its worst. That whole scene just tops Russell Swan almost dying back in Samoa.

    With 13 left, I wonder how the swap works as it's been a while we've had an odd-numbered swap (Gabon was the last), and we don't have an Exile Island this season.

    Note: NO SPOILERS!

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    • I'll copy my Facebook review over later :P

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    • Also I feel like Cydney is still worth rooting for - she's sassy, she isn't (outwardly) a bully, and she's the most strategic out of the Brawn Bunch. I hope she gets onto a good tribe and into a good alliance.

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    • Via FB status:


      Tonight marks a bit of a change, my friends. Usually, after a Survivor episode, I would be raving on and on about how glorious the episode was, but no. This episode... NO. This was the absolute worst Survivor episode I've ever seen. It was all challenges and bullying of another castaway. Granted the episode centred on a medical evacuation, which was actually packaged rather well in my opinion. I was so emotional and was devastated when the evacuation happened. It's going to shake up the game majorly, I do believe.
      But enough praising, because this episode was equivalent to diarrhea.An absolute embarrassment and a black mark on what has otherwise been a stellar season. After the emotion of the challenge, all they had to show was the downright disgraceful and uncalled for bullying of Alecia at the hands of her three other supposed tribemates. They didn't even show the reactions of the tribe that had its member be evacuated, for Christ's sake! 
      I'm getting major World's Apart vibes here. I have never seen such disgraceful behaviour. I have never despised a tribe more than To Tang. After they lost the immunity challenge, the three bullies attempted to vote Alecia out then and there, but Jeff wouldn't allow it. With no pre-tribal, we had the shortest Tribal Council in history and the bullies voted Alecia out. Even Jeff was saying he was rooting for her. I have a feeling he's as disgusted with the behaviour of To Tang as I am. Any respect I had for the To Tang members this episode is now GONE. 
      This episode was just all-around uncomfortable to watch. I did not enjoy it one bit. I will even go as far to say it is the worst episode in Survivor history. Never have I despised an episode more.

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    • Tanglefrost wrote:
      Via FB status:


      Tonight marks a bit of a change, my friends. Usually, after a Survivor episode, I would be raving on and on about how glorious the episode was, but no. This episode... NO. This was the absolute worst Survivor episode I've ever seen. It was all challenges and bullying of another castaway. Granted the episode centred on a medical evacuation, which was actually packaged rather well in my opinion. I was so emotional and was devastated when the evacuation happened. It's going to shake up the game majorly, I do believe.
      But enough praising, because this episode was equivalent to diarrhea.An absolute embarrassment and a black mark on what has otherwise been a stellar season. After the emotion of the challenge, all they had to show was the downright disgraceful and uncalled for bullying of Alecia at the hands of her three other supposed tribemates. They didn't even show the reactions of the tribe that had its member be evacuated, for Christ's sake! 
      I'm getting major World's Apart vibes here. I have never seen such disgraceful behaviour. I have never despised a tribe more than To Tang. After they lost the immunity challenge, the three bullies attempted to vote Alecia out then and there, but Jeff wouldn't allow it. With no pre-tribal, we had the shortest Tribal Council in history and the bullies voted Alecia out. Even Jeff was saying he was rooting for her. I have a feeling he's as disgusted with the behaviour of To Tang as I am. Any respect I had for the To Tang members this episode is now GONE. 
      This episode was just all-around uncomfortable to watch. I did not enjoy it one bit. I will even go as far to say it is the worst episode in Survivor history. Never have I despised an episode more.

      Calling Cydney a bully is a bit of a stretch, given that she was merely just following her alliance.

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    • This episode was all wrong.

      They shouldn't have had that challenge that day, they shouldn't have let last it that long, they shouldn't have had an IC and TC. Alecia shouldn't have been voted out. They didn't even show Gondol after Caleb's death.

      Worst episde so far.

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    • Honestly, the first half of the episode was amazing. Very irresponsible for producers, but I've never been so tense and compelled to watch the show. Second half was rushed, and kinda sucked. Very unique episode. 

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    • XxSolarEclipsexX wrote:
      Honestly, the first half of the episode was amazing. Very irresponsible for producers, but I've never been so tense and compelled to watch the show. Second half was rushed, and kinda sucked. Very unique episode. 

      Agreed, agreed, agreed!

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    • This was honestly one of my favorite episodes, especially the second half; Alecia knew she was going home, but she still fought until her name was written down three times. I agreed she wasn't really fit for the brawn tribe, but she earned my respect after standing up against basically her whole tribe. They even played 'March To Tribal' when she got voted out! I really also like how they're portraying the brawn tribe, with them being tight with each other, but not open to outsiders.

      The evacuation was also especially sad, given Survivor standards, but I do agree they shouldn't have let the challenge run for so long. Still, it's a great episode in what's shaping out to be a fantastic season!

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    • Copied from my Facebook review, as promised. (Verbatim)

      This episode was a bust. From Caleb's evacuation to the highly predictable Alecia boot, the only bits that were really engrossing were the events of the horrifying Reward Challenge, which brought back memories of TAR 922 and Samoa.

      Anyway, let's skip past the moments where Debbie calms down from her newfound power and comforts the newly dethroned Peter.

      It's the next day and there's a Reward Challenge. Upon looking at the sand, I knew that it was going to be a bad time for the castaways - it was so well-lit... Time for a sunburn of a whole new level.

      You know it's intense when the CBS videos show the "Dig It" challenge at three times the duration of the immunity "Jungle Relay". It starts out pretty innocuously - shots of the challenge, Chanloh walks in without Liz, the contestants do a log wiggle, then they proceed to do something reminiscent of the Puzzle Dig. It's when the "ELAPSED TIME: 45 MINUTES" tag pops out that you know shit has gotten real.

      Still, everyone looks pretty fine - no one is showing any signs of dying. Sure, everyone is sweating buckets and Alecia is *cheerleading* and all, but no one is seen to be collapsing onto the sand, which I imagine must be as hot as magma by the time *45 minutes* have elapsed.

      Out of nowhere Chanloh gets all their bags and achieves a blowout victory (in Jeff's words). Then Debbie collapses. I was extremely worried that she would end up being the medevac, but she manages to push through it - this is while Totang and Gondol are still digging for bags if I remember right. Losing Debbie would have been devastating - all that unintentional humor gone, all that strategy down the drain.

      Gondol finds their third bag and proceeds to the carnival game from hell - I mean let's be real, any challenge after the sand dig must have seemed as if they were devil spawn.

      Caleb completes the challenge for the Beauties, winning the runner-up reward in the process over Totang by just one or two balls. What a consolation! At this point he still seems pretty okay, since the heat exhaustion isn't apparent until he collapses. Then at this point Debbie makes a full (well, as far as 'full' goes) recovery and it's Caleb's turn to suffer. One moment he celebrates and the next he's in a corner exhausted. Medical sees to him and gets him to lie down as they do a series of tests.

      Cydney is stuck to the pole and is seen crying. And her tribe doesn't even have a consolation prize. She is then brought under the shade, near Caleb. The entire crew is then called in to help with their recoveries - this is when shit officially gets so real, "Roll With It" is re-happening. Caleb is eventually unable to recover, but Cydney does. The former is brought to a chopper - poor guy. He really seemed to be an amazing person at camp; I can understand why Gondol was devastated. And we get to see the first of Michele in a long, long time. However, he was probably the most inconsequential of the Trifecta of Collapses, so while his evacuation was terrible, it could have been worse.

      We then see the tribes at Camp. Debbie makes a highly emotional confessional that genuinely put me on the verge of tears. Cydney's position at Camp while listening in on the argument is literally me while watching an argument - BRING THE POPCORN! Scot and Jason's continued berating of Alecia is simply unacceptable though. The "keep cheerleading" quote lost Scot some of my respect.

      Anyway, the Immunity Challenge is where Totang's dysfunction was at an all-time high. The challenge is essentially make-or-break for Alecia's stay in the game, and their loss sealed her fate. (Side note: "HIPPOCAMPUS, AMYGDALA, FRONTAL LOBES!" should become mainstream.)

      The douchefest that is Totang proposes to Jeff the idea of an impromptu Tribal Council which Alecia rejects - no matter. The editing doesn't even bother to show us the at-camp strategising (nice going, Reward) and skips right to the Tribal Council. I don't know why they didn't show everyone's votes a la "Give It Cheese", given that the boot was so darn obvious. Alas, Alecia goes home.

      I really hope the Tribe Swap puts Jason in his place. At this point (well, since the start) Peter is a better person than Jason, and that's saying a lot. Additionally, I hope it gives Cydney new life. And I'm pretty sick of Gondol being next-to-invisible, so the Tribe Swap will definitely take care of how Anna's Alliance will continue.

      Overall, I give this episode 7 embryos out of 10. And this has nothing to do with the three collapses.

      P.S. I can't wait for the "infection that can destroy in a matter of hours" evacuation (if it turns out to be one).

      EDIT: I was just reminded of Debbie's random pose while recuperating moments after Caleb was evacuated. THAT POSE IS GOLD OMG.

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    • Why do you not like Cydney? I want her to win.

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    • Both Alecia and Caleb deserve another shot... if Second Chance II happens, I hope both are included in the voting poll, I'd defiantly vote for them to return.

      When Jason was taking care of Cydney, I briefly HAD positive thoughts on him when he was looking after Cydney, but quickly went back to being negative thoughts once he started bullying Alecia again.

      This was not a great episode. Despite not really being a fan of them, I'm glad Cydney and Debbie at least recovered.

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    • Master Hydraffe wrote:

      Calling Cydney a bully is a bit of a stretch, given that she was merely just following her alliance.

      Regardless of if she was following her allies or not she should have at least said something to them. IMO, if you let the bullying happen and do nothing about it, you're just as bad. She's definitely my favourite on To Tang though.

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    • ok, i am not spoiling since i have 0 idea what will happen next, my guess is they will just do a 7-6 uneven swwap due to the evacuation


      on the other hand, do you guys think they should have cancelled the IC because of the med-evac? i personally think no

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    • Jonghyun408 wrote:
      ok, i am not spoiling since i have 0 idea what will happen next, my guess is they will just do a 7-6 uneven swwap due to the evacuation


      on the other hand, do you guys think they should have cancelled the IC because of the med-evac? i personally think no

      I don't think so either. Yes, Alecia's boot was definitely unfair following the Medivac, but it is what it is. If Jason or Scot had been booted over Alecia, the controversy may not have been as harsh.

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    • I agree.  Unless a double elimination was planned, there was no need to eliminate two people.

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    • There was no need for that. They could easily milk Caleb's death for the entire 45 minutes of the episode, like they did with Russell's and Colton's. And it only made the second part rushed.

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    • LincolnAloisio wrote: There was no need for that. They could easily milk Caleb's death for the entire 45 minutes of the episode, like they did with Russell's and Colton's. And it only made the second part rushed.

      but those happened at the IC time,and it is 30 minutes in the episode so they just have to milk it for 10 minutes, but Caleb med evac happened only 15 minutes in the episide so they will need to play his evacuation for 30 minutes.

      also, to be fair, at past seasons when someone is med-evac at.the.RC time or 1 day point, they just continue the round and have 2 ppl leaving, (Cagayan,Philipines) so i think it is fine they continued

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    • Not really. Russell's was during the RC. They wouldn't do the IC anyways because both tribes would go to TC, but still. And Colton's was also after the RC and before an IC.

      They could've easily fit in the first half to episode scenes from the tribes, like the mood on Chan Loh with Peter on the outs aside from the Night 8, the girls alliance on Gondol like the one they released on YouTube, Jason and Scot bullying Alecia some more. And then have the challenge, Caleb daying, and how that impact the tribes.

      Instead, they spent 25 minutes on that and the last 20 with some scenes with Debbie and Totang, a IC and a TC. SIXTY PERCENT of the cast didn't even get a confessional. 

      The problem is not that they did (but still they shouldn't have done it), but that they did badly.

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    • I agree that Scot and Jason were overly harsh to Alecia, but I won't say I'm disappointed to see her gone. Not even remotely. There were a few bright moments in her time, which is only because she's been given so much air time thus far instead of many others I'd much rather see, but ultimately I felt she should've been the first boot from her tribe, and was one of the worse players I've seen from the show (taking into account gameplay, likability, etc.) Sure I feel a little bad for her, but my opinion of Scot was already low and my opinion of Jason was already mixed. Jason's reaction to Cydney's collapse actually boosted my opinion of him from this episode. Truth be told I don't really care that much about him bullying Alecia, and I felt Scot was the worse offender anyway. My opinion of Scot definitely declined, but he was already one of my least favorite people, after Joe, Peter, and Alecia herself. And I found Jeff's explanation of Alecia's placement on the Brawn tribe pathetic. We don't need more people that basically fall into the archetype of "unintelligent girl who doesn't take crap from anybody." I never liked those characters...not with Abi-Maria, not with Alicia Rosa, not with NaOnka, etc.

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    • Clay Thompson wrote:
      I agree that Scot and Jason were overly harsh to Alecia, but I won't say I'm disappointed to see her gone. Not even remotely. There were a few bright moments in her time, which is only because she's been given so much air time thus far instead of many others I'd much rather see, but ultimately I felt she should've been the first boot from her tribe, and was one of the worse players I've seen from the show (taking into account gameplay, likability, etc.) Sure I feel a little bad for her, but my opinion of Scot was already low and my opinion of Jason was already mixed. Jason's reaction to Cydney's collapse actually boosted my opinion of him from this episode. Truth be told I don't really care that much about him bullying Alecia, and I felt Scot was the worse offender anyway. My opinion of Scot definitely declined, but he was already one of my least favorite people, after Joe, Peter, and Alecia herself. And I found Jeff's explanation of Alecia's placement on the Brawn tribe pathetic. We don't need more people that basically fall into the archetype of "unintelligent girl who doesn't take crap from anybody." I never liked those characters...not with Abi-Maria, not with Alicia Rosa, not with NaOnka, etc.

      Truth - I did expect Alecia to go over Darnell in the first episode, and was definitely shocked that Totang kept her twice in a row. By the end of the second episode however, I developed a liking for Alecia.

      Also I loved NaOnka XP

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    • Well, I have mixed feelings about what I feel are two separate episodes mashed into one hour. I personally found the first 30 minutes as very compelling, and it was unique and intriguing to see all of the behind-the-scenes stuff. (Shoutout to the Survivor medical team btw, you guys rock!) 

      However, I also agree that I feel that the swap should've came after Caleb's departure. I'm interested to see what happens with 13 people left in the game, but I also feel a bit robbed, as I think Alecia could've added some more intrigue to this kooky group going down the stretch. In addition, I felt that this tribal council was very boring and even unneccessary, in stark contrast to these last three stellar Tribals.

      So, does anyone else think they may go down as one of, if not, the most top-heavy episodes in the history of the show? 

      Here's looking forward to next week! This season's still got me, and I hope it continues delivering us enjoyment!

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    • The episode was anticlimactic? 3 people looked like they were dying and the underdog got voted out. I loved the whole episode and i think that the tribal council was one of the most necessary this season, because it showed Scot and Bounty Hunter as even worse than we thought i hate them both and hope that Cydney turns on them because i really like Cydney but i don't know how long i can like her if she sticks with them (a lot like Sierra in World's Apart). I was hoping that Cydney would vote with Alecia honestly and tie the votes but we can't have everything. I am loving the cast not so much because i love them i actually HATE Nick, Scot, Bounty Hunter, and Peter, Joe i dislike even though he's done nothing, and i'm indifferent towards Neal, Aubry and Michelle but i love them because of the way they interact and the dynamics, at this point i think the season is rather on par with where Cagayan was at this point. The whole medical evacuation anarchy scene was equally crazy and amazing.

      I'm not going to go out and hate a Survivor episode because some people bullied another contestant that i totally loved because that's what makes you root for other contestants to get them back (World's Apart with Will Sims II and Shirin was different because he went too far and Shirin was the only person worth rooting for practically over the whole season) and i think that this season will be big on the players that were totally power-hungry, self-centred and inconsiderate getting put in their place during the merge (which is why i liked Marquesas so much). Let's just hope that i'm right and this isn't like World's Apart where all the good people get voted out way too early.

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    • I think most of the criticism on anticlimax is focused on the second half of the episode, where you know that Alecia was going from the moment the Immunity Challenge ended with a Totang loss. 

      Your second paragraph is very insightful, however.

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    • @Nothing

      I agree with what you said, worst episode of the season by far.  I was really hoping Alecia would get her idol back somehow.

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    • Really wish Brawn would've won the challenge as it would've been interesting if Alecia made the swap to see how she acclimates. But honestly, I bet the three brawns have a good reason for hating her so I still like Cydney and Jason. I can't stand Scot though don't get me started. It sucks that Caleb had to go out that way but he's a tough guy and my heart goes out to him for having to leave like that. 

      This swap is really throwing me for a loop due to 13 people remaining, I have a theory but it may sound insane. KEEP IN MIND THIS IS NOT A SPOILER IT IS A PREDICTION.

      Maybe they will swap tribes but one person will get a blank buff or they won't get picked depending on how they do it. That person and an additional reward will be the reward in a reward challenge. 

      Maybe that's not feasible because the tribe might not even want another person but I don't know. Let me know what you think.

      JOJO

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    • JojoFromKocamo wrote:
      Really wish Brawn would've won the challenge as it would've been interesting if Alecia made the swap to see how she acclimates. But honestly, I bet the three brawns have a good reason for hating her so I still like Cydney and Jason. I can't stand Scot though don't get me started. It sucks that Caleb had to go out that way but he's a tough guy and my heart goes out to him for having to leave like that. 

      This swap is really throwing me for a loop due to 13 people remaining, I have a theory but it may sound insane. KEEP IN MIND THIS IS NOT A SPOILER IT IS A PREDICTION.

      Maybe they will swap tribes but one person will get a blank buff or they won't get picked depending on how they do it. That person and an additional reward will be the reward in a reward challenge. 

      Maybe that's not feasible because the tribe might not even want another person but I don't know. Let me know what you think.

      JOJO

      They could use the dissolved tribe's camp as a one-time Exile Island for the odd-person out.

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    • Oh yeah! That's a good idea!

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    • I've been having thoughts of them not dissolving any tribe at all, and just switching the members of each tribe such that the numbers become 4-4-5 instead of the current 3-5-5.

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    • yeah, so will they have picking tribes or random draw? if one-time Exile, then it should be picking tribes i guess

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    • Could it be that the tribes will once again merge at 13? It would definitely be unprecedented, and I can see backlash (given that it would be so early), but it's definitely a possibility. The best case scenario would still be that the Final 13 divide into two tribes with a twist.

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    • Jonghyun408 wrote:
      yeah, so will they have picking tribes or random draw? if one-time Exile, then it should be picking tribes i guess

      One canister could be empty.

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    • Master Hydraffe wrote:
      Could it be that the tribes will once again merge at 13? It would definitely be unprecedented, and I can see backlash (given that it would be so early), but it's definitely a possibility. The best case scenario would still be that the Final 13 divide into two tribes with a twist.

      I wouldn't like that. I know they think the merge causes more drama but 13 is just too many and its too chaotic and makes the merged phase of the game way too long.

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    • JojoFromKocamo wrote:

      Master Hydraffe wrote:
      Could it be that the tribes will once again merge at 13? It would definitely be unprecedented, and I can see backlash (given that it would be so early), but it's definitely a possibility. The best case scenario would still be that the Final 13 divide into two tribes with a twist.

      I wouldn't like that. I know they think the merge causes more drama but 13 is just too many and its too chaotic and makes the merged phase of the game way too long.

      I agree, merging with 13 is too many (though mind you, last season did merge with 13 castaways remaining).

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    • It's been a long time since anyone posted here but I'm surprised at the amount of backlash this episode has received. I'd like to bring up a few points here:

      • Part of the greatness of reality TV, for me at least, is that the hero doesn't always win. Whereas in fictionalized shows, the hero almost always comes up on top, the greatness of shows like Survivor is that it's very possible for the villain to prevail, because Survivor isn't a movie. To see the "bullies" win the vote against Alecia was cool imo because it really set the stage for a larger arc. It's tiring to see these people portrayed as villains always being eliminated in rapid fashion, because it doesn't add much to the grand scheme of things. The larger narrative is really what does it for me, and I think having villains you can root against going forward is great. Without heroes, there'd be no villains, and the same is true vice versa. Part of what makes stories great imo is when you have heroes and villains, and we can't just whittle down all the villains in the story.
      • I don't get all the support for Alecia. I really don't. Just because you hate Kyle Jason and Scot doesn't mean you're obligated to like Alecia under any means. I don't get why people have to side with one fence or the other. Alecia to me is Abi Maria plus an underdog story, and it just really goes to show that people here will always sympathize with the underdog here regardless of their personality traits. If someone can explain to be how Alecia is not an underdog version of Abi Maria, please tell me.
      • I think we have too much hindsight for this challenge. I see people here saying "This is such a tough and physically exhausting challenge, a medical evacuation was bound to happen." Look at it objectively and compare it to other challenges. Before the season, if you told me this was the challenge where people went down, I wouldn't have believed you, and I don't think anyone would have. It's just jumping over some hurdles, finding bags, and playing an arcade game. It's nothing special.
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    • There are people who like Abi, so I don't see why they shouldn't like Alecia, or why that's a bad thing.

      Examples of underdogs that suck: Spencer, Shirin, Mike.

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    • LincolnAloisio wrote: There are people who like Abi, so I don't see why they shouldn't like Alecia, or why that's a bad thing.

      Examples of underdogs that suck: Spencer, Shirin, Mike.

      I suppose it's all subjective, then. Personally, I found Abi to be grating and sympathized with the rest of the tribe. On the other hand, I'm a huge fan of Spencer in both seasons, as I found him to be more unlucky and more unfortunate in both his seasons.

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    • Yes, it's definately subjective.

      Spencer's caracther is just a gamebot with no emotional depth that was shoved down our throats because he was an underdog in Cagayan, and when he tried to give something personal for the editors to work with in Cambodia it only came across as fake.

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    • To be honest, I think that Alecia was a lot more annoying and bothersome than we saw on TV. I think that the Brawns had a good reason for hating her so much so I don't feel as though she was a hero. But because she was so annoying I wish she would've gotten further to make it more interesting.

      JOJO

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    • An Outcast
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